Comments on: Despicable. http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/ Go to http://wolfesmusings.com for the not-so-grumpy musings. Tue, 07 Sep 2010 23:54:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: wolfe http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-987 wolfe Fri, 20 Oct 2006 12:32:22 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-987 Maybe you're right Z. I've sincere doubts, but maybe you're right. The Heifer Project -- interesting. I've always liked things based on the Grameen bank. Microcredit loans do seem to disproportionately benefit women, and I actually don't think that's a bad thing at all. -wolfe Maybe you’re right Z. I’ve sincere doubts, but maybe you’re right. The Heifer Project — interesting. I’ve always liked things based on the Grameen bank. Microcredit loans do seem to disproportionately benefit women, and I actually don’t think that’s a bad thing at all.

-wolfe

]]> By: zogmama http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-942 zogmama Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:20:57 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-942 Perhaps nothing does "enough" good, nor ever will, but I don't believe it's a reason to do nothing. Bill and Melinda Gates are on the right track, I think. I'm also quite fond of the Heifer Project, which operates on the principle of "teaching a man to fish." I think that many people (wolfe and I certainly) reach a philosophical impasse when it comes to estimating the nobility, or perhaps the charity, of our fellow men. I'm no Madonna apologist; I think she's a shameless self-promoter, but she has donated a significant amount of money to establish an orphanage in Malawi. I think that fast-tracking her adoption (the rest of us would have to reside in Malawi for a year before being allowed to adopt a native child) was a desperation move on the part of the government, in the hope of bringing more attention to the plight of the orphans. The motive may be debatable, but a hungry child probably doesn't care about that if it puts food in his mouth. Respectfully abschickened by ~Z~ Perhaps nothing does “enough” good, nor ever will, but I don’t believe it’s a reason to do nothing. Bill and Melinda Gates are on the right track, I think. I’m also quite fond of the Heifer Project, which operates on the principle of “teaching a man to fish.” I think that many people (wolfe and I certainly) reach a philosophical impasse when it comes to estimating the nobility, or perhaps the charity, of our fellow men.

I’m no Madonna apologist; I think she’s a shameless self-promoter, but she has donated a significant amount of money to establish an orphanage in Malawi. I think that fast-tracking her adoption (the rest of us would have to reside in Malawi for a year before being allowed to adopt a native child) was a desperation move on the part of the government, in the hope of bringing more attention to the plight of the orphans.

The motive may be debatable, but a hungry child probably doesn’t care about that if it puts food in his mouth.

Respectfully abschickened by
~Z~

]]> By: wolfe http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-940 wolfe Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:33:06 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-940 It doesn't do enough good. -wolfe It doesn’t do enough good.
-wolfe

]]> By: Female http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-938 Female Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:06:29 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-938 I am hesitant to think that money doesn't do any good. I like the idea of installing wells and sewerage systems and Doctors without Borders, as well as sponsorship of people to come to the West, learn a trade or something else of value which they can then take back to their community and use to develop. Hopefully some other posters will also answer your question. I am hesitant to think that money doesn’t do any good. I like the idea of installing wells and sewerage systems and Doctors without Borders, as well as sponsorship of people to come to the West, learn a trade or something else of value which they can then take back to their community and use to develop.

Hopefully some other posters will also answer your question.

]]> By: wolfe http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-936 wolfe Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:37:42 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-936 @Female, yep that's a big part of it. (microcredit/Nobel prize). On the Bill Clinton thing (I dislike him; I think he exploits women in a truly dubious fashion) yes, he has an interesting idea, but that fashion of 'help' that's via money? It's not worked. And that messes me up as a Christian, since I am personally horrible at evangelism and missionary work. (I know; I've tried. And failed.). What else is there, then? -wolfe @Female, yep that’s a big part of it. (microcredit/Nobel prize).

On the Bill Clinton thing (I dislike him; I think he exploits women in a truly dubious fashion) yes, he has an interesting idea, but that fashion of ‘help’ that’s via money? It’s not worked.

And that messes me up as a Christian, since I am personally horrible at evangelism and missionary work. (I know; I’ve tried. And failed.). What else is there, then?

-wolfe

]]> By: Female http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-935 Female Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:28:38 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-935 <i>No, ganking kids out of their culture? That’s good for one or two people but let’s try and raise the standard of living of EVERYONE in Malawi for example,</i> That idea was in my initial post where I suggested she could do more good by donating $. I don't like Bill Clinton, we all know that, but I think his philanthropic club is not only amazing PR for the members but a fabulous idea. I'm not sure how many women are in his club, but it seems lately that wealthy men are becoming political activists to raise money or donate it and solve global problems (thinking of the other two I don't like - Geldof and Bono), plus, everyone's favourite superhero, Sir Richard Branson. Wealthy women seem to be trying to do the same but at the familial level by adopting overseas, poor children, ie Jolie, now Madonna. At least they are doing something. Re: microcredit, I am guessing you are talking about microfinance which The Nobel Prize was recently awarded for, right? No, ganking kids out of their culture? That’s good for one or two people but let’s try and raise the standard of living of EVERYONE in Malawi for example,
That idea was in my initial post where I suggested she could do more good by donating $.

I don’t like Bill Clinton, we all know that, but I think his philanthropic club is not only amazing PR for the members but a fabulous idea. I’m not sure how many women are in his club, but it seems lately that wealthy men are becoming political activists to raise money or donate it and solve global problems (thinking of the other two I don’t like - Geldof and Bono), plus, everyone’s favourite superhero, Sir Richard Branson. Wealthy women seem to be trying to do the same but at the familial level by adopting overseas, poor children, ie Jolie, now Madonna. At least they are doing something.

Re: microcredit, I am guessing you are talking about microfinance which The Nobel Prize was recently awarded for, right?

]]> By: wolfe http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-931 wolfe Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:37:19 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-931 <blockquote>there are a lot of children (and adults) living miserable lives in Africa and it’s tough to tell how to best help them. Money isn’t doing it Do you really know that? If this is true, then surely rather than charity, the best thing to do would be to adopt?</blockquote> Yeah. The US has dumped more than the Marshall plan into Africa and it's not worked. There are corruption problems, tribal problems... No, ganking kids out of their culture? That's good for one or two people but let's try and raise the standard of living of EVERYONE in Malawi for example). Not just 1-2. I admit, that's a tough problem to solve. Microcredit for female entrepreneurs (google it) seems to be a good start. Yes, that's what some would view as a '50's feminist solution. At least it's 50's. -wolfe the 50's feminist.

there are a lot of children (and adults) living miserable lives in Africa and it’s tough to tell how to best help them. Money isn’t doing it
Do you really know that? If this is true, then surely rather than charity, the best thing to do would be to adopt?

Yeah. The US has dumped more than the Marshall plan into Africa and it’s not worked. There are corruption problems, tribal problems…

No, ganking kids out of their culture? That’s good for one or two people but let’s try and raise the standard of living of EVERYONE in Malawi for example).

Not just 1-2. I admit, that’s a tough problem to solve.

Microcredit for female entrepreneurs (google it) seems to be a good start. Yes, that’s what some would view as a ’50’s feminist solution. At least it’s 50’s.
-wolfe the 50’s feminist.

]]> By: Female http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-929 Female Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:51:41 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-929 <blockquote>I genuinely believe our global society is heavily biased in favor of women having custody — even foreign women of a different race with no real connection to the child vs the child’s biological father. You’d have to argue hard to persuade me I’m wrong.</blockquote> wolfe, to adopt infants and children from overseas is not simple, at least if you are Australian. While I'm not wanting to put this on a financial level, the minimum spend is 40k and it is a rigourous screening procedure (of the parents) and takes years, even if you are married and a highly qualified professional. In saying that though, I do agree that there exists a bias to grant women custody. Family court outcomes in AU are 73% in the mother's favour. I find it kind of ironic that the men on mabtw who profess that a woman's only role is to be an incubator and mother to a child, would then have a problem with granting mother's priority access over fathers... <i>there are a lot of children (and adults) living miserable lives in Africa and it’s tough to tell how to best help them. Money isn’t doing it</i> Do you really know that? If this is true, then surely rather than charity, the best thing to do would be to adopt?

I genuinely believe our global society is heavily biased in favor of women having custody — even foreign women of a different race with no real connection to the child vs the child’s biological father. You’d have to argue hard to persuade me I’m wrong.

wolfe, to adopt infants and children from overseas is not simple, at least if you are Australian. While I’m not wanting to put this on a financial level, the minimum spend is 40k and it is a rigourous screening procedure (of the parents) and takes years, even if you are married and a highly qualified professional. In saying that though, I do agree that there exists a bias to grant women custody. Family court outcomes in AU are 73% in the mother’s favour.

I find it kind of ironic that the men on mabtw who profess that a woman’s only role is to be an incubator and mother to a child, would then have a problem with granting mother’s priority access over fathers…

there are a lot of children (and adults) living miserable lives in Africa and it’s tough to tell how to best help them. Money isn’t doing it
Do you really know that? If this is true, then surely rather than charity, the best thing to do would be to adopt?

]]> By: wolfe http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-926 wolfe Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:40:54 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-926 My argument is -there are a lot of children (and adults) living miserable lives in Africa and it's tough to tell how to best help them. Money isn't doing it; -Flying in and adopting one or two children doesn't seem to be a good way; -I genuinely believe our global society is heavily biased in favor of women having custody -- even foreign women of a different race with no real connection to the child vs the child's biological father. You'd have to argue hard to persuade me I'm wrong. The points others -- especially Zogmama -- have made here are very valid. -wolfe My argument is
-there are a lot of children (and adults) living miserable lives in Africa and it’s tough to tell how to best help them. Money isn’t doing it;
-Flying in and adopting one or two children doesn’t seem to be a good way;
-I genuinely believe our global society is heavily biased in favor of women having custody — even foreign women of a different race with no real connection to the child vs the child’s biological father. You’d have to argue hard to persuade me I’m wrong.

The points others — especially Zogmama — have made here are very valid.

-wolfe

]]> By: zogmama http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/comment-page-1/#comment-907 zogmama Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:44:33 +0000 http://wolfe.mabtw.com/2006/10/15/despicable/#comment-907 @Teri: Sophie chose to save one of her children, but to never see him again. That was my only point - again awkwardly made. My apologies. ~Z~ @Teri: Sophie chose to save one of her children, but to never see him again. That was my only point - again awkwardly made. My apologies.

~Z~

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